One Table And Two Chairs with Ms Mya Yee Nander

A free clinic with two tables and one chair sounds almost too simple to work and that’s exactly why Mya’s story hits so hard. We talk with Maya, a dual-certified Family Nurse Practitioner and Psychiatric Mental Health Nurse Practitioner, about how her life in Myanmar (Burma), her training across Thailand and the United States, and her commitment to transcultural nursing shaped a model of care built for people the system routinely overlooks.

We get specific about what “culturally congruent care” looks like when the patient is a refugee or former refugee navigating language barriers, insurance gaps, and deep mistrust of institutions. Mya breaks down how she grounds her nurse-led free clinic in Leininger’s Sunrise Model and Watson’s Human Caring Theory, balancing cultural preservation with safe, evidence-based treatment. The conversation also connects physical health and mental health in a practical way: you can treat blood pressure and diabetes, but trauma and anxiety will keep showing up unless you address mind, body, and dignity together.

We also wrestle with the pressure to move healthcare toward AI and non-face-to-face tools. Mya’s answer is direct: healing still starts with trust, respect, and listening. She shares how “disarming” humility and even humor can open the door to a real therapeutic relationship, especially when patients have every reason to be guarded. If you’re a psychiatric nurse, APRN, student, or anyone building trauma-informed care, you’ll leave with concrete ideas you can use immediately.

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Let’s Connect

Dr Dan Wesemann

Email: daniel-wesemann@uiowa.edu

Website: https://nursing.uiowa.edu/academics/dnp-programs/psych-mental-health-nurse-practitioner

LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/daniel-wesemann

 Dr Kate Melino

Email: Katerina.Melino@ucsf.edu

 Dr Sean Convoy

Email: sc585@duke.edu

 Dr Melissa Chapman

Email: mchapman@pdastats.com

Transcript

Welcome And Why Maya Matters

SPEAKER_05 0:44

And I'm so thrilled to get you on the podcast. I've, you know, we've we've briefly met a little bit when we did some uh training back in San Diego back in March of 2026, and so and when we got to meet each other, I just was honestly very thrilled about your experiences and your background and kind of what brings you to the PMHP role. So I'm excited to get to know a little bit more about you through this podcast and section. So so thank you very much, Maya, for being here. I really appreciate this opportunity. Also, welcome Dr. John Convoy, Dr. Melissa Kevin Holmes, and Dr. K Molino in the most specific order besides

From Myanmar Tourism To Nursing

SPEAKER_05 1:20

them that's the way I see on my screen right now. So thank you very much, everybody, for being here. So, Maya, let's just jump into it. I would really love to hear your story and have you share your story with the audience here of you know how you partly how you came to the right stories and how you came to nursing and ultimately became a psycho health nurse practitioner. I know you're also duly certified as a family and psych nurse practitioner, and you're an academic as well. So maybe I I always like hearing about origin stories, and so maybe if you wouldn't mind giving us your origin story.

SPEAKER_02 1:52

Oh, yes, absolutely. I was born and raised in a country called Burma. Now already it's known as Myanmar. And my previous life back in Burma, I was in the tourism industry. I will I worked as a cultural interpreter and then diplomats in different regions and then quote unquote, and also tour guide. So I will host the world and whomever comes in, understand wanting to understand about culture, traditions, and people in general, right? About the country and et cetera. So from there, I I, you know, generally traditional Burmese women will uh basically stay home. You don't go out after 6 p.m. And uh so became uh became a tourist guide, which I have so much excitement and interest about and then towards the world. And then again, Burma and Myanmar has been you know running the longest civil war. Now we had another outbreak of civil war which you know displaced four million people the past four years. So, you know, though you know, like any any of the others, I am one of them who grown up in this situation, you know, country political and social situations. So kind of adapt and and and kind of understand things, right? And however, this understanding and relating to the world and world language, that's the major drive that I really want to go out and want to see and feel. Are we the only sovereign countries? So from that work, I was able to understand. Before I understand the world, I was able to understand within my cultural and social political context, I was able to travel out of my house, a couple of blocks more, and later on in town, and later on another district. Later on, I started traveling around the country, around around the country, right? And that experience gave me not only the deep understanding of you know our political, historical, social values, good, bad, ugly, and also understanding of healthcare problems and crisis that we serve we we faced. And right there and then, you know, after years later, I decided, why don't I change my profession? Why don't I change my profession? Something, it's the same form of human caring. You know, we kind of host people with smile and hospitality, but when they are not rich and with money and health, when they are sick. And then I wanted to go back to school back in Burma for nursing school. And then that's a time that there are three strikes, you know, against me. And in order to go back to school, it was very, very difficult. At that time, I was already graduated from one of these local universities, and I I had my English literature. Yeah. And I wanted to go back to nursing, just want to take care of people in the community, especially those communities. It's difficult to reach out. Sometimes it's two and a half days walking or climbing the mountains, and oh, you know, you stay somewhere in a tiny little village and et cetera. So I see myself, why don't I just become a nurse and then just fly in or walk over there, whatsoever I can take, you know, do. And then I there are three strikes against me, which is in order to get into majority of the school at that time, all of the school actually, are run by the state government of by the government. And then restricted, you got to be 18 or 18 years old or lower, younger, younger than 18 years old. And I have to have a certain height and weight, and I'm not wearing, you know, I have, and then I Sean, you won't be able to fit in because you wear reading glasses. They won't, they won't let you in. Because those are the criteria almost impossible for my in my 20s, in my late 20s. And another one is you got to be virgin. That's a translation of uh meanings, you got to be single, meanings, you know, there are different translations. So I passed all this boat, you see what I mean? Couldn't get back anymore. And I was so itching, and I understand there are a lot greater out there that I, you know, I can do a lot better with this virtue of human caring. So the first school I actually started looking outside, got a scholarship, it's called APAC University, which is a is a private university in in Bangkok, Thailand. That's a university which has credential accredited university, and then I'm able to move forward my American education, right? And of course, at that time there were no uh you know support system, no actual saved money in order to go study in a broader, etc. So thankful that I just got into Assumption University studying nursing. Love and love and love it. In two years into my nursing, I feel so itchy. I can do better. I can, I can, I can get more American. How about American nursing? How about American nursing? Long story short, I've met amazing visiting professors from America. And she just comes and sit and just talk. It's like a transformational. The women, autonomy, you know, confidence, everything I've never met before. And then I'm like, that's it.

unknown 8:02

That's what I want.

SPEAKER_02 8:05

That's what I want. And of course, I didn't have any, you know, or

American Nursing And Cultural Care

SPEAKER_02 8:10

form of scholarships or income, no, nothing like this, right? So it was my dream. She instilled in me. But it took four years for me to collect. Long story short, I was able to finally, when the countries open up, you know, the war was ceased, and I possessed a couple of land that I purchased. I was a small entrepreneur back in Burma, and that land sales was able to pursue my education in the University of Hawaii. And first year in the University of Hawaii, I love and love and love it. And the first thing I've learned about is cultural care and human caring. Before I talk about white blood cells count or, you know, the numbers. They taught me so well about transculture nursing. And after I graduated, I fall in love with cultural cares. And that's how I get here. And you couldn't go back home, couldn't go back home after graduating. Reach out to the Burmese nursing council. Hi, Professor So-and-so, I'm ready to come home. I'm ready to come home. Well, excuse me, what's your name? And then, oh my gosh, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Right? And then she said, Well, we're not sure. Because you coming back home with American education, not sure whether it is even eligible to come back to Burma. So it's not about American education, it's about xenophobia. And and then, you know, this it's it's a threat, right? And you go, however, I am very persistent. My family member, everybody lined up in front of this, you know, department of nursing and say, uh, we're here to apply to get a nursing license. Every week, different family members showed up in Burma. And when I am actually kind of keep on going with my nursing and here in Hawaii, right? Back and forth. And after two and a half years later, they are saying, okay, finally we give up, but come back, let's have an interview. It took two and a half days to have an interview that I am a wealthy, you know, kind of credit for graduate from credit university in order to come back to serve the community of Burma in Burma. And then COVID-19 outbreak hit, no troubles, and etc. So I I moved on. I moved on from Hawai'i to Indiana. That's where the Burmese community, and there are 20,000 Burmese refugees hosted there. And I became their primary care AP APRN, APRN, from right there, and then I learned learning about physical sign and symptoms. And now I'm able to manage blood pressure and diabetic. But this is there are more than that. There's more than that that I I have no idea. Psych. My people, including myself, we have no idea how much trauma we have gone through, although we smile as the the winner of the uh millionaire today, right? That there's so much trauma that I have not processed, they have not processed. And there's some sort of understanding that I need more than understanding the body. And that's a time that I hold myself and I say I gotta go back to school for psychiatry. And that's where I got into proud school of Northern Kentucky University, yay! And of course, my first my master's in family nurse practitioner from Indiana University, they taught me so well. I love and love what I do, and a psychiatry portion, I love and love what I what I do, and that's the reason why I am I'm in the uh psychiatry, the world of psychiatry. So I find it, I find myself, I have a good balance, mind and body, mind and body and soul.

SPEAKER_05 12:41

Well, I that's I'm I'm inspired. I mean, I I hope everybody listening gets the same goosebumps that I'm getting right now, because that's just a wonderful story. And uh I remember hearing some of that when we first met in March, and so thank you for for sharing some more details

Building A Nurse-Led Free Clinic

SPEAKER_05 12:55

on that. You are you are definitely a shining star, and then and and your passion and inspiration I hope feeds other people's as well. So turn it over to Sean. Thank you, Maya.

SPEAKER_04 13:06

So I I think Roosevelt once said that the test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much, but it's whether we provide enough for those who have too little.

SPEAKER_01 13:17

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 13:18

I suspect your nurse-led free clinic model would be endorsed by both Roosevelt and Peplau. Uh can you tell us about your clinic's model and your motivation behind it?

SPEAKER_02 13:28

Yes. So from there, I have started touching quite a number of uh underserved community, ACT team, street medicine work. You know, I do it all in Hawaii, Indiana, and Illinois. And and one of the one of the you know, worth talking about you know, the thing that I did was in 2024 I successfully launched a free clinic. The model based in Sunrise Leininger model, which is cultural care culturally congruent care. It's based on theory of culturally congruence care. And then so that free clinic is nestled in southwest of Chicago, and that's where a lot of underserved community plus refugees community who fall out of this insurance world, language barriers, cultural barriers, system barriers. It's very difficult to get healthcare whatsoever. Or maybe maybe they just like screw it, I'm done. I I'm going to take my home medicinal powder, and I will just go in and see doctor only when I'm so crashed and no longer able to function. Because of so I saw a huge need, and again, I wouldn't be able to do this, Sean, without having a full practice authority of the state of Illinois. I am very thankful to those, to our ancestors, fighters for full practice authority, believe in the goodness of APRNs and the nursing, that what we can do for the for the community. So with this full practice authority, I'm able to start set up a tiny little clinic. I called you, it started with two tables and one chair. That's all they ask. I asked one of this, you know, community uh monk, I said, monk, I would like to come in and take care of people. What you need? We don't blah blah blah blah. I said, all I need is a tiny little room, one table and two chairs. That's it? Yes, that's all I need. So the model based on human-caring Watson theory, and then and then Dr. Leninga transculture nursing sunrise model. So theory basically based on three pillars. One is cultural maintenance, and then another one is cultural preservation, and then later the third one is basically help it transformed, depend on their pace, right? I'm not coming in and say, man, I'm an American now. You don't believe in lesser anymore? Auntie, why don't you take lesser brail in order to bring the blood pressure down instead of taking this thway, which is like 35 different herbs that they take, they thought it's blood pressures, they're getting better and calmer heart down, right? Instead of that, go ahead and take your thuizy. It's really, really good. Yes, my mother took Twizi. I took Twizi. Auntie, we've been taking Twizi for 25 years, right? Could we bring your our blood pressures down? Hmm, I might have something, just a tiny little pill. It seems to be help working. It's prevent a lot of stroke, heart attack, and everything. Auntie, you have all these beautiful granddaughters graduating. I just leave it there.

SPEAKER_04 17:18

That's wonderful. Maya, I uh you know, I'll I'll do another name drop in that your story and what you're talking about and the passion behind it. It almost reminds me of you being somewhat of a modern-day Mary Breckenridge with the Frontier Nursing Service. I'll pass it to Melissa.

SPEAKER_03 17:33

Yes, thank you so much. I have to take a minute to just take in, and I love your passion and enthusiasm

Trust With Refugees Through Humor

SPEAKER_03 17:40

for this work. So thinking about that therapeutic relationship, the cultural navigation and preservation, Peblau's theory emphasizes that the relationship between nurse and the patient is acquired human experience. And at my free clinic, you're serving refugee and former refugee committees who face these barriers that we've been discussing. How do you establish trust and navigate Peblau's orientation phase when a patient may have high anxiety or past trauma to authority and institutions?

SPEAKER_02 18:12

Yes. Yes. It happened to all of us, including me. I'm not a champion by any means because of I wear the title, it does not mean better rank or a person or et cetera. It it it is such an important question, Melissa, because of that's what I faced in my first clinic where I served for 12,000 Burmese refugees in Fort Wayne, Indiana. We have, we I I find that the first three to six months, there is a enemy enemies. We all came from the same country, Melissa. We all look alike, but country has been divided for so long. And then when British came in, you know, that's our colonial colonial masters. The number one and at all times rules that they use is divide and conquer. Divide and conquer. The best technique that you can ever do. It's long lasting until today. And I go in and I thought it might be more appropriate if I wear a Burmese dress. I was so wrong. I was so wrong. They were looking at me, they're like, Where is a real doctor here? In their perception, the doctor means a male, a white figure, you know, white male figure, or any male figure, if there's nothing else. Where's the real doctors here? And then of course, I was, I'm a I'm out of the I'm a genie out of the bottle. Of course, you know, I can't I have all these crazy hairs going on and flowers. I'm a I'm a handful to look at. You see what I mean? And then here I am. I'm talking to these to these elders in their 70s, 80s or younger generation, you know, they're looking at me, they're like, what bizarre! What are you? You speak Burmese, but you are not one, right? Trust is already broken right there and then. And yes, it it was very painful for three, three to six months, extremely painful. And then later on, I learned I said, Maya, wake up. This is not your journey. That is their journey. This is their healing journey. This is not your healing journey. Don't mix with this. So, how can I make my patients? I can't talk about listener prayers, sister. I can't, I can't talk about Lozarten and Metformin by any means. The first thing I said is one technique I've learned is I disarm myself. Disarm, absolute disarm. I make fun of myself, I've made fun of my hair, I make fun of my accent, I make fun of how stupid I look. That cracked the ice. That broke the ice. They start laughing so hard. They just laughing is a laughter, laughing is disarming for me. Absolute disarm. And then they started, we feel what kind of a couple of visits, two to three visits. Nobody takes the medicine. Every time they come home, there is a boxes and boxes of medicine not touching because they don't trust us. Whatever they they they find. So I started watching very famous Burmese comedy. I started picking up those jokes and and then start they and then later on they said one thing. Man, I want to see this teacher. They called me a teacher. She's so funny. She's so funny, and that's a beginning of it. That's a beginning of it. And from there, to now I'm talking to 49 years old. Male, who's coming in with urinary stuff, and they are very protective of it, especially Burmese Muslims male. They don't want to be touched, they don't want to be looked, they don't want to expose anything about it. And now we are able to sit down and talk about, brother, how can I help you?

SPEAKER_03 22:18

That is so powerful. The disarming of humor and you know putting yourself out there in a way that maybe like washes away the where do people put you in their own psyches and allow that relationship to begin.

SPEAKER_02 22:38

Melissa, and I didn't I couldn't take all the credits here. I learned these techniques from my first teacher. You won't believe this, Dr. Patch Adam. Of course. And I listened to his books and read his book five times whenever I am so lost. And whenever I'm pumped up with, I'm a nurse, why are you talking to me like this? Or I'm a nurse practitioner, blah blah blah. And every time I have all this pump up anxiety, and I I I read to his book at least a lot in my lifetime five times. And I had a real good time, one of his medicine and humor campaigns that in his West Virginia land. So it was it was very funny. It's very, it's such a human experience. Disarm myself.

SPEAKER_03 23:37

That's really beautiful.

SPEAKER_02 23:38

Myself and others.

SPEAKER_03 23:42

Well, and it has to be genuine, right? And I can tell by the way that you're talking about it that it's it's genuine to you and you embody it. That's really cool.

SPEAKER_00 23:50

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 23:51

I'll pass it on to Kate.

SPEAKER_00 23:53

Thank you. This is so incredible to hear about your work. And I'm I'm also, I think like my colleagues here are just so struck by how you really forefront the human-to-human

AI Pressure And Protecting Relationships

SPEAKER_00 24:06

connection. You're even describing this environment that is very simple, right? And so much of what we are inundated with, I think, in healthcare, in terms of how to move things forward, has so much to do with technology and cutting-edge digital tools and AI and you know, all these types of things that are very much not what you're talking about. So, you know, Maya, I am curious, you know, what's your take on that type of thing and and how can we really preserve the therapeutic relationship in this environment where we're being very much encouraged to use non-face-to-face interpersonal tools.

SPEAKER_02 24:44

Yes. I can't I cannot talk too much in details of you know, in generalizations, but at least I can add my little personal experience, my tonical pearls. That's a huge struggle with this AI and the development. It is a rising star. We might not be able to live without AI after all, right? However, let's don't forget as as as human caring champions like like you, like everybody, we are nurses. And human caring starts with building trust and respect. And not everybody speaks like one of us, act like one of us, think like one of us. We do not have a history or background, political, social background of raising in the same neighborhood, go to this beautiful school or not school, you know, kind of like childhood advert advance, you know, those things that we have no idea without actually spending time and listen to somebody else. And the treatment will not be successful if there is no trust. There will be no healing if there is no trust. Trust begins with a good listening sister. So I gotta hold my tongue a several time. I gotta, okay, girl, you want to talk too much now. Why don't you hold your tongue a little bit, listen to them very deeply. Deeply. Even then, before they are able to reach to that point of that they are able to talk to me, there are so many layers of. So it's all started with respect, I think. Respect. They keep on showing respect regardless of what. Keep on showing respect. I cannot choose which you know, kind of former refugees I want to treat. I couldn't. I I I cannot. Some of them were military, they worked, they served in the military, which noju killed the whole entire blah blah blah. Right? And another is just a peasant. Their house has been burned down, their wife has been raped, you know, the whole family was uprooted. But as a human caring person, can I choose who is coming in front of my uh one table and two chairs? Can I judge by now? Okay, oh my gosh, you blah blah blah blah blah, right? I am right there at that moment. He, him or her as a human who is going through this suffering.

SPEAKER_05 27:27

Yeah, thank you, Maya. This again just is great. You know, the question, and I I really, you know, one of the things that jumped in my mind too is as you've said this a couple of times, you know, all you needed was that table in two chairs. I mean, I think that's probably your your title, your autobiography, right? I mean, that's just gonna be that's that's just inspiring. And so so and thinking of and kind of feeding off of Kate's question a little bit more, too, is you know, did you find, I mean, did you try, you know, applying this model of care within more kind of traditional healthcare systems? Or or did you find you had to kind of set up this free clinic because that's the only place you really could find within our healthcare system currently to take care of these people that you knew needed the care and and you felt a draw to do that?

SPEAKER_02 28:09

I'm uh I'm a quite a stray dog in that sense.

SPEAKER_05 28:14

I love it.

SPEAKER_02 28:15

I I you know it, I see there is there there are the bureaucratic structure, which even myself is struggling, uh, applying fundings and how to write the fundings. And I I never learned those stuff before. But right now, with this education, my ancestor gave it to me. The education and knowledge is my amazing professors from University of Hawaii, Indiana University, you know, northern Kentucky. Now I'm at Yale. All these professors and teachers and and sang heroes, they taught me along the way. That's something I can grab my stethoscopes and be there. That's something I can do right now. Right now. You know, because of that, I see blood pressures

Two Lessons For New Clinicians

SPEAKER_02 29:05

much improved, less anxiety, and breathing is better. Sugars from uh 12.5 humor in A1C to 5.6 now.

SPEAKER_05 29:14

That's great. That's so wonderful. Maybe we got time for one more question.

SPEAKER_04 29:20

I I I'll uh I'll ask you to think about, you know, right now you're you're in the middle of uh building a practice and you're in the bill in the middle of or in the middle or near the end of your formal education, you're getting close to a terminal degree. You have a unique opportunity because a pretty good chunk of our listenership are psychiatric nurses or graduate students aspiring to be where you're at right now. Can you distill two really focused recommendations to the next generation to come behind you to continue to build upon what you're building?

SPEAKER_02 29:58

Disarm definitely 100%. And uh, it is so easy once we wear a white coat, I got inflated quickly. And I I expect a certain way of people talking to me and then everything, I my ego go up really quickly, so fast. And then I see the therapeutic relationship between me and the rest of the world goes south very quickly. So disarm and be humble and then keep respect at all times within you and your clients. That's easy to take a therapeutic relationship not only between the provider and the and the clients or any members or anybody in the world. That's a route to the success. Money will come later, it'll follow you, it'll follow you. But we gotta build first a major important foundation. So we won't go up and fallutin with white coats and etc., which we well deserved, right? But always humble and listen, listen well and respect and preserve the dignity of the others, regardless of what. Regardless of what.

Closing Thanks And How To Connect

SPEAKER_05 31:22

This has been great. Yes, thank you. Thank you. I'll I'll let that kind of be the last statement of the uh the podcast. Thank you very much, Maya, for being here. I I appreciate your again. I think your your inspiration, your passion just comes. You know, if this was in writing, it would come off the page, it's coming off of the earbuds listening to you right now. So so thank you. And and definitely, you know, for those listening, we'll have contact information for for Maya. If anyone wants to get in touch with her, I'm sure, I hope there'll be people that listen to this and want to know more about your free clinic and and how we can kind of you know make that grow further, maybe to other cultures, other communities that need this care too. But but thank you for for from the bottom of my heart for being a guest here on Pep Law's Ghost. Those listening, please, you know, look forward to more wonderful episodes, more wonderful guests like Maya coming in the future. So please like, subscribe, and and send those comments. We'd love to hear from you as well as you know what you want to hear from us from the future too. So I thank you and look forward to the next episode.