Peplau's Ghost
Psychiatric-Mental Health Nurse Practitioners (PMHNP) discussing using psychotherapy within their practice. Four PMHNP program directors and a biostatistician from across the Unites States sharing their passion on how psychotherapy can help people with nearly all their emotional problems.
Peplau's Ghost
From Seventh-Grade Sybil to Somatic: Dr. Sara Jones on Psychotherapy, Nursing Leadership, and Changing Systems
What if the most powerful change in mental health care happens in the space between two people—guided by skill, grounded in science, and held with genuine regard? That’s where we go with Dr. Sara Jones, a psychiatric mental health nurse practitioner, researcher, and clinic owner who builds care around psychotherapy as a core competency, not an optional extra.
We start with the spark: a seventh-grade encounter with Sybil that—despite later controversy—ignited a lifelong curiosity about how talk, relationship, and presence can heal. From there, Sarah maps an integrative practice: a strong CBT backbone for structure and measurable change; a Rogerian stance that makes hard work feel safe; and somatic-informed tools that honor how trauma lives in the body, especially for first responders. She shows how motivational interviewing, reframing, and brief behavioral strategies fit into short visits without pretending every session is a full protocol, and why even five minutes of focused psychotherapy can move ambivalence, build adherence, and restore hope.
We dig into system realities with candor. Large organizations often push PMHNPs into 15-minute med checks, citing cost and role stereotypes, while private practice offers flexibility to schedule 30–90 minute sessions and sustain therapy financially. We challenge myths about “therapy not paying” and spotlight the real barriers: mindset, training access, and a lack of preceptors who model integrated care. Sarah makes the case for a stronger pipeline—clear scope education, therapy-focused clinical hours, and continuing education that blends CBT, MI, and somatic skills into ethical, evidence-based practice.
Looking ahead, we talk standards and stewardship. The field thrives when programs invest in psychotherapy training and when clinicians demonstrate outcomes that matter: reduced crises, better engagement, and patients who feel truly cared for. If you’re a PMHNP, student, educator, or curious clinician, this conversation offers tools you can use tomorrow and a vision you can help build.
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Let’s Connect
Dr Dan Wesemann
Email: daniel-wesemann@uiowa.edu
Website: https://nursing.uiowa.edu/academics/dnp-programs/psych-mental-health-nurse-practitioner
LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/daniel-wesemann
Dr Kate Melino
Email: Katerina.Melino@ucsf.edu
Dr Sean Convoy
Email: sc585@duke.edu
Dr Kendra Delany
Email: Kendra@empowered-heart.com
Dr Melissa Chapman
Email: mchapman@pdastats.com
Hey everybody. Welcome to another guest at Peplaw's Ghosts. And I'm super excited to have this guest. But before I do that, I wanted to just let everybody know at the end of the podcast. Stick around, listen to the uh full version of our intro and outro music. I've been speaking with uh actually our guest, Dr. Sarah Jones, and she was wondering where that's from. And so just to remind you that a previous guest who has volunteered their time was actually a student of Dr. Sean Convoy. Um, and this was their assignment. So if you listen closely, you can kind of hear themes of cognitive behavioral therapy and other things. So enjoy at the end of the podcast. Like I said, the full version will be there. So um stick around. Take care and enjoy the podcast.
SPEAKER_01:Just my take on things. My answer number two. Identifying challenging your beliefs, over here, framing your mind.
SPEAKER_04:I think we're recording. Welcome back, everybody, to another wonderful episode of Peplau's Ghost. I am thrilled um to have our next guest be one of my um current colleagues and friend. Um, so I'm super excited to introduce Dr. Sarah Jones, uh, get to know her a little bit more about her and kind of share her with the world in this podcast. So um so it's super excited to kind of do that. I'm also joined uh with our perennial uh co-hosts, Dr. Sean Convoy, uh Dr. Kate Molino, and Dr. Melissa Chapman Hayes. So thank you so much again for joining us. And uh and let's just get into it. Um, I haven't asked this question in a while, but again, Sarah, you and I kind of go a little bit back. Um, do you remember the first time you met me or we met each other?
SPEAKER_03:Oh, I don't even think we met at APA, um, which is American Psychiatric Nurses Association. I know we're supposed to clarify uh those acronyms for everyone. I think it was with Barclay. Um, so Dan and I teach a national review course for psych mental health nurse practitioner uh board exams. Um, at one point it was five or six times a year where we got to travel. So five or six times a year we were spending three days together. So we got a lot of uh uh talking and getting to know each other. Um now it's more a webinar, but uh yeah, I feel like uh even a friendship has grown out of that. It was great hanging out with you in Chicago uh a couple weeks ago. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, get the the spouses to meet each other. That was great too. So yeah, that's wonderful. Yeah, that's that's what I remember. And uh yeah, those humble beginnings of kind of getting back after COVID because um COVID kind of shut all those review courses down, and so kind of bringing that back. So um, so yeah, so it's it's been I know I had somebody the other day talk about that it's uh it's now called BC before COVID and then after COVID. So it's uh it's a new BC, right? So um so let me get to uh the the meat of kind of the podcast then and say uh when did you first get interested in psychotherapy? I know that's a a part of your practice and and something of a passion of yours. So can you share kind of what first drew you into getting involved in doing it or just being a part of it? You know, just where does it all start from?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, absolutely. And like I said, I was listening to your first podcast just the other day, and I'm like preparing the answers for such questions. And I always tell everybody it goes all the way back to seventh grade when I found my mom's copy of Sybil. If anybody remembers Sybil, um, it was a book written by her therapist, a woman that supposedly had dozens of personalities and was really kind of a light on multiple personality disorder. And I'm very sad that a lot of that was debunked and not true and found out later, um, especially with how controversial now uh DID or dissociative identity disorder is. Um, and I remember reading that book like cover to cover and being like, I want to know why the brain works this way and how, because you know, the book is the therapist and the patient relationship outside of medications. Um, and so just the fact that the talk therapy component of it was what was treating, again, I know debunked later, but what was treating this woman, um, and then I read the book two more times through high school and just knew uh uh mental health was the field I wanted to get into. I never wanted to do anything else. Um, I actually started pre-med and switched to nursing because I saw the holistic and more to me therapeutic side of that. Um and then even as I went through nursing school, undergrad, and graduate, I was drawn more to precepting with people that were doing more of the therapy side of things. Even in my master's program, um, because I was also working on my PhD at the same time, I was allowed to do more therapy hours than medication management hours because I was so um, I was just really passionate about it. So whereas most people have way more medication management hours in their graduate program, um, I was able to do a lot more therapy, which which was great for me.
SPEAKER_05:Great. Hey, Sarah. So Dan asked kind of a 30,000-foot question. I'm gonna be a little bit more critical with my follow-up question, which is uh I each and every one of us have something in common, and that, you know, there was an experience or a set of experiences that really illuminated to us that there was a secret sauce in psychotherapy that we need to tap into. Can you think of an early experience in role as an advanced practice psychiatric nurse where psychotherapy showed itself, do you be something that was almost magical? And if so, could you identify that, de-identify that and share it with us?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, yeah. And I don't even know if it was once I was in practice, it might have even been when I was still in school. Um, so a little background. I I'm also a researcher, I have a PhD in nursing science. And so my dissertation was with um adolescent sex offenders and their families. So I was working directly with a program that was focused on treating not only uh the kids, but also the, and actually my dissertation was the parents' experiences and yes, you know, doing therapy with the kids, group therapy with the kids, but once a week there was a parents group. And that is where I was more focused. And just I remember seeing kind of that altruism of group therapy, um, people realizing they weren't alone, people new to the process, seeing those that were, you know, seeing the light at the end of the tunnel, um, and just how comforting that was. Again, just how I I read Sybil being like, talking can actually help. Um, but I I remember these parents just being so comforted. Um, that relationship that they were not only developing with each other, but the therapist and even myself as a student therapist um was able to in a very difficult situation, knowing your child has done these behaviors and oftentimes to a sibling or a cousin, which makes that even more difficult, um seeing them have hope. I think that's one of the greatest things that psychotherapy can give to our patients is hope. I mean, in anything we do, but that they can they can see that and it's no longer them living on their island all by themselves. And so I just I I don't do group therapy these days, but it is even as a psych RN, I loved doing group therapy um because of those experiences that I had.
SPEAKER_05:So I I am compelled to share that uh Sarah, uh probably not even consciously aware of it, is just been tinging off Yalum's curative factors in this cancer. It just comes out naturally in her language. So thanks for that internal consistency.
SPEAKER_03:Yes, I know you were very uh listening to you on the podcast with Yalum and you were the one talking about milieu therapy as well, I believe. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Sarah, what an incredible topic for your dissertation. I mean, it's such a such a rich topic, also very difficult and complex. Um, and so so great that you were able to do therapy with these families and and these young people. Um, I'm curious to know um, you know, what forms or types of psychotherapy are you drawn to um and what draws you to them?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, absolutely. Um I I feel like a lot of people very uh very strong CBT foundation. Um even with my students. Uh at one point I was having them do Beck's uh CBT Essentials with the Beck Institute, which is like a 14-hour introduction. If you've never done it or you have students, it's a it's a really great program. Um, so definitely CBT. As I've grown, I feel I'm a pretty good. I would love to say, as far as uh unconditional positive regard, right? A lot of Rogerian. Um, and I that's another thing. I ask people how well they think they do that. And probably some of us overestimate that. So that's why I'm I'm hesitant to say I try as hard as I possibly can, but you know, human humanity creeps up in this sometimes. Um more recently, and I would say the past probably five, six years, my my topic of research actually changed to the mental health of first responders about 10 years ago. And um, that's where I really got more involved with trauma. I know you think, how were you not involved with trauma before that? But you know, I really saw the impact actually as a career or profession can have on an individual. Uh, so as far as like the trauma-informed methods, I really uh appreciate more of the somatic side of things, um, the not just mindfulness, but even somatic experiencing. And it's nothing I'm formally trained in right now. Um, I I don't mind just closing because this has also been a topic. I do believe therapists should have therapists. Um, I feel like we benefit from both sides of that experience. And so I recently, uh probably about six months ago, uh started seeing a new therapist that is trained in somatic experiencing therapy. And for me, it has been, you know, it's been so different from any other therapy I've done in the past 20 years. And so um I'm I'm way more interested in it now. And it's actually one in the back, I'm like, I I think I want to get trained and certified in that. Just, you know, what we know about how the body keeps the score and how much our our physical body needs to let out and process uh that trauma and those experiences just as much as our mind does. So it's a mix. Um, I don't remember who called it the evidence-based woo-woo. If that was you, I think that was the greatest term ever. I was like, I that totally checks. Um, so yeah, a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of things.
SPEAKER_04:Careful with that. We I think we needed to uh trademark that term. Uh I loved it.
SPEAKER_03:I was like, yes, that's exactly what it is.
SPEAKER_00:Thanks, Sarah. Um, as the non-nurse in the group, I'd love to get your perspective on how you see nursing being a leader in performing psychotherapy.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, that is a really good question. And you know, working with other professionals in the field outside of nursing, um, I've always seen us either seen one way or the other. Like, no, that's not really what you guys do. Maybe that's not really your training. Uh, stick to your lane. And I've I've heard this in the scope of when my students need to get psychotherapy hours, how difficult it's been to convince a psychotherapist to take on a nurse to train in therapy, right? Um, on the other hand, I have amazing colleagues that appreciate um the different perspectives that I give and even sometimes will give that um those referrals to me. Uh, if if there's something else that they've you know, just it's it's in mental health altogether, right? We all kind of have our own, well, not what we're good at, but yeah, what we're good at, right? Where we specialize, where we can do things a little differently than one another. Um, so I think as far as us being leaders in psychotherapy, I think some of that needs to come with more information about what we as psychiatric CNSs and NPs can do, um, what our training and education has been, um, what our scope of practice allows us to do. So to be a leader, I think it is us providing that information, kind of changing that narrative, informing not only our colleagues, but also the public. Um, I know oftentimes because I do do both uh psychotherapy and medication management. And when I will get a new patient and we start talking about meds, but they also want to do therapy, and then they'll go, but I don't want to, can I just see you for therapy as well? Like I this vibe is good. I don't want to retell, you know, I just spent 90 minutes with you getting this all out. I feel when they feel that connection. And so um it's I really like when I'm able to also educate the patients. Yeah, actually I can do both of those. Now, do I overload my schedule of therapy appointments sometimes? Yes, I do, but it really is something I I like doing so much. Um, so I think that's where that's gonna start as far as leadership goes. And then also showing the evidence base we do have, that it's just not us jumping in this as a whim, that the training, um, the continuing education, I can say that's one of the the a big factor of my training is the continuing education I do. I may not be doing full certification programs, but I'm going to full-day workshops, at least so I can put little pieces of different modalities into what I do and how I do it. I hope that answered your question.
SPEAKER_04:I think it did. And that's, you know, I will say too, just kind of selfishly, you answered my question, which I was gonna ask next about, you know, what are your concerns about psych mental health nursing doing uh psychotherapy? So I'm gonna skip to the next one because I'm just gonna be a little selfish here, because I I really am curious on how you're gonna respond to um, because I know uh with our history of kind of knowing each other, I know you know you've been at you've done you know a lot of psych work in multiple areas, inpatient, outpatient, and you currently own your own practice, um, which again feel free to plug uh in your response here. But I mean, I'm just looking at, you know, what are some of the barriers or what do you see as some of the barriers for psych mental health nurse practitioners using more psychotherapy in their practice? I, you know, we had um Brooke Finley on a few weeks ago, and she talked about that there's this myth that you lose money doing psychotherapy in practice and and and really kind of emphasize that is a myth and things. And so, so you know, what are some other people or beyond financial, which I think is huge, massive? I mean, I I I mean, I would love to kind of, you know, get on and we can get on a ramp maybe about insurance companies and things like that, although that's not going to change in this podcast. But but, you know, what are some other thoughts that come up as far as you know, why, why people don't go get into this more? I mean, again, I think we're we're preaching to the choir because we're all kind of, you know, we're drinking the same Kool-Aid here, but it's, you know, just would you mind kind of sharing what that is and what are some of the barriers that you see and maybe how do we overcome those barriers?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, and I think you uh started talking about, you know, my experiences as a good response to this. I do own a private practice um in North Little Rock, Arkansas, as well as Conway, Arkansas. I opened a second location a couple of years back. Um, open journey wellness clinic in 2019. It was me and two LCSWs, and we've grown. I now have soon to be seven other psych mental health nurse practitioners that work uh with me. I don't like to say for me, but that work with me. Um, but being in private practice allows us to do psychotherapy. I think that's a really big part of it. Um, we can we all do our own scheduling. So whether I spend 30, 45, 60, 90 minutes with a patient, you know, that's on me. Um and every individual that's in the practice can also make those own decisions for themselves. And so private practice definitely gives you that flexibility. Um, whereas if you're at a hospital unit or a larger facility, community mental health center, um, especially if you're a salaried employee, as most uh are in those settings, uh, it is less expensive for them to pay a LCSW or LPC for the therapy they they're doing. While as we as Psych and Ps may have a little bit larger of a salary. And they don't want, I don't, I think they, and I say they as administration, um, not healthcare all the way to the insurance level, but the administrative level, that they don't realize we have this training and education. And um, yeah, sure, in those systems, if you're seeing patients every 15 minutes for med checks, yeah, you're making more money than you would if you are spending 55 minutes with a patient for medication management and and therapy. And so I think that's a huge barrier, is that those larger systems uh don't see the value of us doing that. And they do see uh well that they make more money with us not doing that um and focusing us on medication management. Um, but then I go back to that same barrier of people don't know that we do and that we can. Um and I'll add to that. I also have colleagues that are like, heck no, that's not what I do. I do meds, I'm not their therapist. Um, and don't get, I mean, I don't love this model, but I do have that are like, yeah, no, uh, I see a patient, they start talking to me about something deep, and I tell them, hey, when's your next therapy appointment? This will be something good to bring up with your therapist, and they kind of shut them down. Um and I don't like that, but one bit, but that's that's the other thing is that some I don't want to say us, but others in this field uh don't even want to do that, don't know that's in their scope. And unfortunately, maybe genuinely come into this just for the medication side of things, seeing believing they're going to make more money just doing the medication side of things. Um, but also they don't have that additional training or education or continuing education um to integrate aspects of therapy, even though as nurses, I feel like we do that anyways, um, into their interactions with their patients. Unfortunately, not everyone in psychiatry, psychiatric nursing takes on the PEPL paradigm of what is supposed to be our provider-patient relationships.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, carrying it on. I mean, it reminds me too, it's uh, you know, as we're recording this, it's you know, we're about a quarter into the semester for uh for our program. And we'd have we had uh students on campus for a day. We do kind of like a foundational therapeutic communication day, just kind of giving them just real basic and motivational interviewing and just gonna get, you know, I always kind of say bite your tongue, just kind of just sit there in the silence and get comfortable with that silence so you don't have to respond to everything uh type of thing. But I remember, you know, a couple of in our cohort currently that that that they were that's what they were coming into the program. They were just gonna learn how to, you know, as I cynically say, learn how to prescribe Cerequil. And that's that was their focus. That's all they wanted to do is learn how to, you know, prescribe psychic psych meds better. But then once they learned that the you know the scope of practice is much wider, I think they've it's more, I you know, the more I hear it, it's like they fall more in love with the role. It's you know, kind of narrowing our role just to medications, really, and and I may have said this too. I'm sorry, I'm kind of taking some time away from Sean too, maybe, but this is I idea I've kind of uh thought on as well as you know, I hear people getting burned out in our profession too. And I and I worry about this kind of you know, 15-minute med check, like you you were saying, Sarah, you know, just kind of cranking them in, cranking them out, type of thing. Um, where you can make a ton of money that way, but you know, the the longevity of being able to do that just really and the satisfaction of of the work that you do, I think, just really is stymied as well. So um, but yeah, yeah, I'll stop talking now and turn it over back to Sean or you know, would love Kate's thought too on that. And Melissa, if you have any thoughts either.
SPEAKER_02:But yeah, I have actually one thought, which is um, because I yeah, I I taught psychotherapy this summer, and uh it was the first time I've taught that particular course. And this was the first psych specialty course that our students had taken. So um yeah, it was you know really very much about breaking it down to basics, you know. And um I think, and now I'm also precepting one of the students who was in the class and my clinical work. And I I really was observing her, how she really needed to see it in action for the for the connections to be made about how you actually do sort of like med management and psychotherapy all in the same visit. It was like I saw the light bulb go on. And so it's really made me think about how um, I mean, we've talked about this before, the need for preceptors, but also like really intentionally building the um preceptor pipeline for folks who are doing this in practice so that students can see it done. Because I think that just makes all the difference for them.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_05:So, Sarah, I I all credit goes to Dan in terms of how he built these questions. So if you notice, his questions start in the macroscopy, then they go to the mesoscopy, and then the microscopy, and then he backs out to the end with this last question. And I'm gonna give you a bifurcated question. I I I want you to think about the question and I want you to answer it from the perspective of what you suspect will happen and what you hope will happen. Okay, what do you think will be the future of psychotherapy for advanced practice psychiatric mental health nursing? What you suspect will happen versus what you hope will happen.
SPEAKER_03:Ooh, that's a loaded question because I feel like a lot of factors go into just the future of psych mental health nurse practitioners is gonna be, anyways. Um not to mention the political climate and the overall healthcare climate of the value of mental health. Um, but also, and Dan, if you don't want me saying this, let me know. The the quality of the psych MP programs that are out there, um, that uh those of us that are teaching and wanting our students to learn psychotherapy as opposed to some programs that are truly just degree mills and putting out practitioners um without the quality that other programs may have. I said that as PC as possible. So I hope No, no, preach, preach, Sarah.
SPEAKER_04:I mean, you're you're in you're in warm company here. That's you know, that's what we that I mean, yeah. We I think I think it's all our jobs as professionals is to keep that standard of profession at a high bar. And and so um calling out our profession is is something we should do. So no, I keep going, keep going. Sorry.
SPEAKER_03:Okay, okay. So the suspect side of things, politically, insurance, health care, large health care, um quality of programs, sadly, I think will not diminish us, but we'll maybe try to hold us down. Um, and it's I guess people like us, people like the organizations we're involved in. I feel uh very passionate that we have that strength and that advocacy within us to try to battle that. Um, but some of that is just not things we can battle all the time. So that's my suspect. Um as far as hope, I would love more programs to have educational programs, have more focus on the psychotherapy aspect. Um, I know just how long have I been teaching? About 15 years now in a grad program. And through time, hearing about how other grad programs are actually decreasing or even cutting their psychotherapy clinical time. Um, that would be a suspected effect us. Um, so I would I hope that we see kind of this the shift where more programs are really providing this emphasis and that we are educating each other more about what is in our scope and what we can do and how we can do it. Um I would love more psych and peace to be able to combine their therapeutic skills and their medication management skills. In fact, um, last year, maybe two years ago, myself and a colleague, uh Dr. Terry Dilks, did a pre-conference, uh, both uh uh at APA, but also at their psychopharmacology institute about integrating psychotherapy techniques into pharmacotherapy. And really, we broke down some of the basic principles of CBT, mindfulness, MI, motivational interviewing, um, and a few other behavioral techniques, how even in a 15 to 20 minute session with a patient, you can still use some of these tools. Um, now you're not following the full protocol from A to Z when it comes to CBT, but if you're able to do some reframing or with motivational interviewing, really focusing on their decisions to change, um, that can be so valuable, even in that 15 minutes that you're with a patient. So that's my hope is that more of us and more of our profession can start seeing that value, and then that healthcare systems communities um can also then value that we can do all of that.
SPEAKER_05:I appreciate your vision, and I'm gonna reach back to something you said in a previous question about your high bar standard for Rogerian focus. I'll say I've had this conversation with people in the past, and I playfully refer to myself as being aspirationally Rogerian.
SPEAKER_03:So yeah, I saw that in the comment and I was like, yes, I'm using that from now on because it is a very high bar to reach. And um my my the colleague I just mentioned, Dr. Terry Dilks, she was uh LPC before coming back for her to be a psych NP. And she probably is the most Rogerian, even as a person that I have ever met. And that is her core foundation of education and training as well. And so I take, I still even use her as like a sounding board with some of my more difficult patients, where I feel like I'm struggling there with maybe some countertransference. Um, and the way that she just is able to reframe how to see that is so beautiful. And I'm like, okay, well, you've reached the bar, you got it, you get the star.
SPEAKER_05:That's fantastic. And Sarah I'll I'll just let the audience know if you ever have time, interest, and availability, there's some old black and white videos of Carl Rogers on YouTube where he does what he does in a magical way that in many regards has transformed my practice. So going old school, watching the old videos is tremendously valuable.
SPEAKER_03:You know, I've actually seen them at one point in my curriculum at my previous institution. Um, there was his, Carl Zhung had some, I think, too. Um, and there was, I think maybe Beck's, but I had all those old school videos in our curriculum, so they could really see that. Yeah, he was master, master level.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, but the more entertainment value really is Albert Ellis, if you ever watched him, and how he gets those four-letter words going. And yeah, he is uh he is very colorful in his language, so okay. That's that's a must-watch. But it's that's I mean, that's the advantage too of YouTube and everything. It's it never goes away. And hopefully that's what this podcast is about as well. This never goes away. So um, but thank you, Dr. Jones. This has been enlightening. I uh really appreciate your perspective and and really kind of just sharing your thoughts on this. I I hope this has been entertaining for all of us. I know it's been entertaining for all of us, but again, hopefully it's for you as well. So just put another plug in for please like, subscribe, send comments, and uh look forward to submitting another episode soon. And uh thanks so much. Reach out if you have any other suggestions for guests, but thank you again to Dr. Jones and look forward to another episode.
SPEAKER_03:Thank you so much for having me.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Just my take on things. My answer number two. Guided discovery. Identifying challenging your beliefs. We're framing your mind, negative thoughts release. Let them go. This cognitive distortions decrease until they cease. Guided discovery. Identifying challenging your beliefs. We're framing your mind, negative thoughts release. This cognitive distortions decrease until they cease. Yeah, now all the PMH and P's get a better understanding on how to help our patients. But the bottom is where they landed. They feel like time is running out. They're at a standstill. Repetition of thoughts, they can't never will. As a provider, try to build a rapport. Asking questions, gathering data, put it all on the floor. With a focus on collaboration and working as a team, engaging, empowering, working as a team while you're on standby, like being a hole on the phone. So if they need you, they can reach you, they don't feel alone. But still devising a plan like there were no you. Cause you're just there to God. What's on the inside? Discovery. Identifying, challenging, yo, beliefs, all beliefs. Framing your mind, negative thoughts release, let it go. Cognitive distortions decrease until they cease. One more time without a discovery. Identifying, challenging, yo, believe, so believe. Framing your mind, negative thoughts release, let it go. Cognitive distortions decrease until they cease. Yeah. Our clients will come in with thinking, thinking. These automatic thoughts, similar to blinking. Having trouble filtering thoughts with polarized thinking. Everything's black and white. Now that don't seem right. Blamin's self or others with all the shoulds and the shouldn't's. With anger and resentment for the coulds and the couldn't. Jumping in conclusions, having to always be right. You can't be catastrophic like disaster strike. Put up in fallacies, either the helpless or they assume responsibility. Personalization, over generalization, global label and emotional reasoning. Too much salt like this, too much seasoning. They feel it, therefore it's true. Work hard until those thoughts are finally leaving. So you can be you, uh They feel it, therefore it's true. Work hard until those thoughts are finally leaving. So you can be you, guided discovery. Identifying, challenging your beliefs, for beliefs, reframing your mind, negative thoughts release, let it go. These cognitive distortions decrease until they cease. Yeah, guided discovery. Identifying challenging your beliefs, we're framing your mind, negative thoughts release, let it go. These cognitive distortions decrease until they cease.
